Podcast Ep 119 | The Jim Collins SMaC Recipe: Your Formula For Success

SMaC Recipe is a con­cept devel­oped in the book Great by Choice. A SMaC recipe is a set of durable oper­at­ing prac­tices that cre­ates a replic­a­ble, con­sis­tent suc­cess for­mu­la. The word ​“SMaC” stands for Spe­cif­ic, Method­i­cal, and Con­sis­tent. A sol­id SMaC recipe is the oper­at­ing code for turn­ing strate­gic con­cepts into real­i­ty, a set of prac­tices more endur­ing than mere tactics.

It is like the U.S. Con­sti­tu­tion, both durable and prac­ti­cal, yet also amend­able. Great com­pa­nies and social enter­pris­es change their SMaC recipe no more than about 20 per­cent per decade, so a key SMaC ques­tion is, What is the right 20 per­cent to change?

In this episode, Kevin Lawrence and Brad Giles dis­cuss why SMaC recipes are impor­tant, and why they help com­pa­nies main­tain dis­ci­pline. Also, they pro­vide sev­er­al SMaC exam­ples and out­line how to build a SMaC recipe.

EPISODE TRAN­SCRIPT

Please note that this episode was tran­scribed using an AI appli­ca­tion and may not be 100% gram­mat­i­cal­ly cor­rect – but it will still allow you to scan the episode for key content.

Brad Giles 00:00

Wel­come to the Growth Whis­per­ers where every­thing we talk about is build­ing endur­ing great com­pa­nies. My name is Brad Giles, and today I’m joined with my co host, Kevin Lawrence. Kev, how’re you doing today?

Kevin Lawrence 00:25

Doing great, Brad. I just love doing the show, you know. It gives us a chance to put our heads togeth­er and think about stuff that real­ly mat­ters for our clients. It’s kin­da like we’re doing like a mini refresh­er, and even some, some in depth think­ing about dif­fer­ent aspects of our work on a week­ly basis. And I’m, I’m real­ly enjoy­ing it.

Brad Giles 00:53

Yeah, good. Good to hear. I’m enjoy­ing it too. It’s good stuff. So as always, we’d like to start with a word or phrase of the day, Kev, what do you got today?

Kevin Lawrence 01:04

Huh, you know, I did­n’t even think about it. I’m think­ing about it as we speak. And I think so it’s gonna be a great one. It might not be an orig­i­nal one. It could be an inspir­ing one. Do you want me to go? The word is oppo­site. So con­ven­tion­al wis­dom and con­ven­tion­al think­ing takes you down a cer­tain road. And it gives you more con­sis­tent or pre­dictable results to what oth­er peo­ple are get­ting. Some­times doing the oppo­site is a real­ly pow­er­ful tech­nique. Recent­ly, we had at the race­track that remem­bers that car race­track when there was a big annu­al event. And it was going to be in gen­er­al, it’s good. And a bunch of us decid­ed to make it a cos­tume par­ty, even though it was­n’t. And we all went in cos­tume and had a riot. So it was the oppo­site of what every­one else did. Seems like we may have been the peo­ple hav­ing the most fun at the whole event. And it was an amaz­ing time. But it was kind of you know, it was think­ing the oppo­site going not against the grain in an aggres­sive or abra­sive way. It was just every­one’s going down one way we did basi­cal­ly the exact oppo­site. And in our minds got notably bet­ter results. And so it reminds me in the busi­ness of how we end­ed up being too Same, same and like every­one else. And as what could you do this the oppo­site? And poten­tial­ly be bet­ter or at least more fun?

Brad Giles 02:40

Well, mine is replace busy with stu­pid. I think I might have said that maybe 50 episodes ago, I think you did. But you know, I’ve been very busy. For a whole range of rea­sons. Most of which is self inflict­ed. So when­ev­er you’re say­ing the con­text for that very quick­ly is that you might meet some­one and they’ll say hi, how are you doing? And the response would be poor. I’m pret­ty busy. So you replace busy with stu­pid Oh, I’m pret­ty stu­pid. Well, that hurts.

Kevin Lawrence 03:29

It is but it’s a great it is a great one. I remem­ber hear­ing some­thing sim­i­lar Brad. It was one of the indus­tri­al­ists, like Hen­ry Ford. And he said, you know, back in the days that if a man would be you know, today be a per­son. But if a per­son can’t do their job in 40 hours a week, they’re incom­pe­tent. Now, I’ve always held that as a bench­mark. And an aspi­ra­tion. I just, you know, the hard part is I can make all kinds of excus­es, maybe, but you know, I am very busy. And I like to be busy. You know, I’m one of these peo­ple, I don’t like to sit around, I like to do stuff. I just got to make sure I bal­ance off the doing the work stuff, and the doing this stuff with my fam­i­ly and my friends and oth­er things. So that and that’s why I wrote a book and that’s why my mom decid­ed that the con­cept of work life bal­ance is sil­ly. That’s a whole oth­er sto­ry. But I like that busy is stu­pid. And replace busy with stu­pid, replace busy with stu­pid, and do the oppo­site of what every­one else is doing. Which is sim­i­lar train of think­ing. Awe­some. Excel­lent. So what the heck are we talk­ing about today, Brad?

Kevin Lawrence 04:41

Oh, tell you what, I’ve said this before. But these we’re gonna have a cook­ing class.

Brad Giles 04:48

It’s time I’m excit­ed. We’re talk­ing about the SMAC recipe right, the spe­cif­ic, method­i­cal and con­sis­tent recipe for suc­cess. This is the thing that gets a lot of lead­er­ship team mem­bers excit­ed because it’s like, hang on, once they under­stand the con­cept, hang on. If we can stick to this stuff, we are des­tined to succeed.

Brad Giles 05:14

It’s an awe­some, awe­some concept.

Kevin Lawrence 05:17

Well, speak­ing of the mind, my term was oppo­site. I’m quite thrilled that you get excit­ed by com­ing up with a recipe for dis­ci­pline. I don’t know that the com­pa­nies I work with get excit­ed about it. But you know, you have an oppo­site view. And I appre­ci­ate your oppo­site view. It’s, it’s some­thing you got to do, like, you know, it’s almost like fig­ur­ing out the guardrails or what­ev­er it hap­pens to be, but I, I, maybe it’s your enthu­si­asm about it that gets peo­ple excit­ed about it.

Brad Giles 05:50

No, it’s the results that we pro­duce that get peo­ple excit­ed about.

Kevin Lawrence 05:54

Very good. All right, prov­ing that you are not indeed stu­pid. Excel­lent. All right. So let’s talk about the SMAC list. It is a real­ly pow­er­ful piece from his book, right by choice. I love it. And the com­pa­nies that we’ve done this with it is a guide­line. And right now in tur­bu­lent times, we go back to it, even even even one of the com­pa­nies that I work with, I know the smack list from a sim­i­lar com­pa­ny, and it was about the bal­ance sheet. And then I saw his and I was and this is going back almost a year ago, whoa, bud­dy, this ain’t gonna work. I see how you’re run­ning your bal­ance sheet. And my clients in the iden­ti­cal indus­try has a smack list direct­ly relat­ed to bal­ance sheet and you are blow­ing it up. And so that cre­at­ed a great con­ver­sa­tion which cre­at­ed notable bal­ance sheet improve­ments and a nice last nine months. But it was, you know, the sim­i­lar busi­ness had already fig­ured it out and he had­n’t and you did­n’t want him to learn the hard way. Because you don’t want to get smack. You know, we can always say this back­list, it’s from lessons that you get smacked with.

Brad Giles 07:07

Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s cer­tain­ly a part of it. It’s about your fail­ures and dis­ap­point­ments. This is jump­ing for­ward a lit­tle bit and your repeat­able suc­cess­es. So we’re ana­lyz­ing with think­ing about those things. So maybe let’s start off and, and let’s see how Jim Collins, the founder of the con­cept describes it. SMAC recipe is a con­cept devel­oped in the book Great by Choice. A SMAC recipe is a set of durable oper­at­ing prac­tices that cre­ates a record replic­a­ble, con­sis­tent suc­cess for­mu­la. The word smac stands for spe­cif­ic, method­i­cal and con­sis­tent. A sol­id smack recipe is the oper­at­ing code for turn­ing strate­gic con­cepts into real­i­ty, a set of prac­tices more endur­ing than mere tac­tics. It is like the US Con­sti­tu­tion, both durable and prac­ti­cal, and also amenable great com­pa­nies and social media amend­able amend­able amend­able. Thank you very much. Great com­pa­nies and social enter­pris­es change this SMAC recipe no more than about 20% per decade. So a key SMAC ques­tion is, what is the right 20% To change? So that’s Jim Collins definition.

Kevin Lawrence 08:25

And if you want to read more on that, you can read that right? That’s right off his site. He’s got some fur­ther infor­ma­tion on SMAC. And obvi­ous­ly read the book Great by Choice where you can get a lot more in depth. But it’s a very sim­ple, pow­er­ful con­cept aside that helps you to stay in your lane and not get your­self in trou­ble by doing a bunch of things that you should, I would­n’t say stay in your lane, stay focused and dis­ci­pline on the things that real­ly matter.

Brad Giles 08:54

That’s the prob­lem, right? Dis­trac­tion. That’s it.

Kevin Lawrence 08:57

It is it’s dan­ger­ous. So when Great by Choice he stud­ied, and when he called 10x ers. Com­pa­nies that beat their index by 10 times dur­ing an unsta­ble peri­od. So he was look­ing for these peo­ple that thrives in real­ly riski­er times.

Brad Giles 09:14

Yeah. So sta­ble. We’re going into an unsta­ble peri­od. Now, if you could beat your com­pa­nies or your com­peti­tors or your indus­try, but 10 times in this unsta­ble peri­od. That’s why Great by Choice matters.

Kevin Lawrence 09:32

And that’s why most of our clients are very excit­ed about this eco­nom­ic shift that we’re expe­ri­enc­ing, because it opens up oppor­tu­ni­ties like crazy for good oper­at­ing com­pa­nies or excel­lent oper­at­ing com­pa­nies, because the ones that aren’t run­ning that will get real­ly wob­bly, which cre­ates more oppor­tu­ni­ties for us. So basi­cal­ly, they out­per­form their peers by more than 30 to one that’s the tex­tures that are kind of stud­ied, and that this prin­ci­ple was found in and Brad, you want to explain how it relates to the hedge­hog because the Hedge­hog is one of the oth­er pow­er­ful con­cepts. And they believe that was good to great or built to last.

Brad Giles 10:13

Yeah, so Jim’s got a real­ly good def­i­n­i­tion of this smac as it relates to the hedge­hog. So, the hedge­hog Think about it like this hedge­hog is very high lev­el, smac is very spe­cif­ic. And when you build them both, they should con­nect real­ly well togeth­er. So this is Jim’s def­i­n­i­tion of a hedge­hog con­cept is a sim­ple crys­talline con­cept that flows from a deep under­stand­ing about the inter­sec­tion of pur­pose or your core pur­pose, what you can be the best at and the prof­it per X or the dri­ver of your eco­nom­ic engine. Okay, so imag­ine the Venn dia­gram we’ve done episodes on the hedge­hog before. Imag­ine a Venn dia­gram. In one cir­cle is your core pur­pose in anoth­er cir­cle is your prof­it parex Or what is the sin­gle eco­nom­ic dri­ver of your busi­ness. And then in the third cir­cle is what you can be the best at the Hedge­hog is at the cen­ter of that is very high lev­el con­cept. On the oth­er hand, a smack is the code for trans­lat­ing a high lev­el hedge­hog con­cept into spe­cif­ic action and for keep­ing an orga­ni­za­tion focused in the same direc­tion, there­by build­ing fly­wheel momentum.

Kevin Lawrence 11:34

Awe­some. So how are they built? Inter­est­ing, I just looked over a sec­ond. One of the com­pa­nies that work with him doing some work with this week just sent me their smack list. Just it’s a great time. Yeah. So how are they built? Well, you ana­lyze all the stuff that’s gone right? And gone wrong in good times, and bad times. And then you build this list. It’s like a play­book. So in one of the com­pa­nies that I work with the Father, their father, there’s three awe­some broth­ers that I work with a com­pa­ny called Ashi­ana. In India, just a shout out to Michelle Varun and con­queror. And their won­der­ful father wound on Gup­ta found­ed the busi­ness and taught them a bunch of prin­ci­ples over the year of how to man­age their busi­ness well, and how to look, they have been suc­cess­ful long term, we took his wis­dom. Through them, I nev­er got to meet the man, although he’s a won­der­ful man. Every­thing they told me about him, and we built the smack list. It’s basi­cal­ly what would dad say to do? Right to make sure that the busi­ness endured over the long term. And it’s, it’s, it’s some great stuff. And if we look at their smac, and I’m gonna give you specifics, but you know, we talk about, you know, that they do mul­ti tow­er devel­op­ments all around India, well, the first tow­er needs to be sold to a cer­tain per­cent­age before you start build­ing the sec­ond. And in real estate devel­op­ment, peo­ple get excit­ed and get ahead of them­selves, and you might get the first 120 5% sold, and well, let’s get going on the sec­ond one. Well, that’s a sure­fire way to get in trou­ble. They talk about the oth­er types of real estate that they don’t get into. They talk about lever­age on their bal­ance sheet. They talk about how much cash to have on hand at all times. They also talked about the fact that they don’t rezone land, they buy land that’s ready to go, and they don’t land bank, some com­pa­nies have a strat­e­gy to have land for 50 years. That is, that’s called land bank­ing, it’s a dif­fer­ent strat­e­gy, they don’t do it. So it’s even taught, it’s also called burn­ing cash. It is, but if you have a lot of it, and you can buy it at 1000 bucks an acre, and then sell it at a mil­lion, it can be a beau­ti­ful mod­el, but it con­sumes a lot. Yeah. And they also talk about the fact that they always main­tain their prop­er­ties for­ev­er, what­ev­er they build, they always take care of it, even though it’s sold. And for those in the West. It’s like you know, stra­ta titled prop­er­ties, but they still main­tain it. So they can have a list of them and give you all the details. But they have this the stuff that they learn, and we refer back to it all the time. And in tur­bu­lent times, we go and look at it and we stick to it. And if there’s a ques­tion that comes up against it, like it vio­lates the smack any­ways, they’re, they’ve done a beau­ti­ful job with it. But an exam­ple of this is, you know, this is a com­pa­ny has been around for decades. And they want it to stay for decades. Yeah. And so it’s keep­ing the wis­dom of all of us and it’s their own lessons but lessons that they learned from their father and their father learned in his ears all into the DNA of the com­pa­ny so they stay smart.

Brad Giles 14:54

So SMAC recipes are built, ana­lyz­ing your fail­ures and dis­ci­pline. moments and your repeat­able suc­cess­es, not the one offs not like, you know, we won this award or we got lucky here. It’s the repeat­able suc­cess­es. So that then cul­mi­nates in a list of about eight to 10 items. And it’s like, it’s, it’s like we always and we nev­er, we always do this or we do that. So we want to give you a cou­ple of exam­ples here as well. So South­west Air­lines is a air­line that we would always back­up before you get in.

Kevin Lawrence 15:29

It’s also so that when peo­ple come in with awe­some new ideas, don’t kill the busi­ness. I mean, if you look at South­west, like they’re a freak­ish­ly suc­cess­ful busi­ness, but they’re also freak­ish­ly dif­fer­ent than every oth­er freak­ing air­line out there on almost every way you could look at them. It’s just every­one’s ears are good. It’s, it’s to pro­tect you from new ideas as much as it is bad deci­sions or dan­ger­ous decisions.

Brad Giles 16:01

Yeah. And we’ll get back to your prop­er­ty client that you men­tioned, any one of those things, peo­ple could get excit­ed about that. And it’s dif­fer­ent this time, or it’s in that in that geog­ra­phy, things aren’t like that, or this is a once in a life­time oppor­tu­ni­ty, we’ve got to jump on it. And these are the things that pop up in the moment or with­out the wis­dom of, you know, the lived expe­ri­ence, per­haps or when we’ve for­got­ten the lived expe­ri­ence, we’ve for­got­ten the pain. These are the things that endure and keep us on the straight and nar­row. Yep, they real­ly are. And remem­ber, this is deeply con­nect­ed to their hedge­hog, and all of the oth­er parts of their val­ues and their pur­pose, and every­thing else that they do. So I don’t think we’re going to go through all 10 of them. But I just want to pick out a few. So the first one would be uti­lize the 737 as our pri­ma­ry air­craft for 10 to 12 years. We don’t use oth­er air­craft, it would be so tempt­ing. But we stick to the 737. All of our mechan­ics, all of our peo­ple know those in those air­craft inside out. We only have to car­ry cer­tain spares. There’s so many things that come out of that. And you know, it mat­ters. The sec­ond one I’ll go through is con­tin­ued high air­craft uti­liza­tion, and quick turns 10 min­utes in most cases.

Kevin Lawrence 17:49

10 min­utes. It’s insane how quick that they can do that.

Brad Giles 17:57

Yeah. So when you’re mak­ing a new deci­sion to bring on a new soft­ware, or a new geog­ra­phy or what­ev­er it might be, can we do it in 10 min­utes, can we still main­tain our turn­arounds in 10 minutes.

Kevin Lawrence 18:11

That’s why they don’t have reserved seat­ing, because it takes too long to mess around. You just go in like you’re get­ting on a bus. Like every­thing they do prac­ti­cal­ly comes down to that one point is it’s quick turn­around, max­i­miz­ing the part of their strat­e­gy is called wheels up keep­ing the plane in the air. And that’s what they’re so damn dif­fer­ent than every oth­er airline.

Brad Giles 18:33

I get so excit­ed about these dis­ci­plines. The next one, con­tin­ued low fares and high fre­quen­cy of ser­vice. That’s pret­ty sim­ple. But this is the one I love, stay out of food services.

Kevin Lawrence 18:49

And you know, there’s going to have been many exec­u­tives over there as well you know, the mar­gin we can make on that food. And then we’d be more pre­mi­um air­line. And then we could com­pete with the oth­er guys. You know what I learned about Herb Kelle­her, the founder, and he was at one of his share­hold­er meet­ings and peo­ple were com­par­ing the rates of South­west com­pared to oth­er air­lines. And they’re say­ing that we should be charg­ing more because we were cheap­er than oth­er peo­ple by way too much. And he’s like, in the nicest way pos­si­ble. Sir. I don’t think you under­stand our busi­ness. The air­lines aren’t our com­pe­ti­tion. Grey­hound bus lines is. And in his mind, they were a Grey­hound bus with wings. That was the busi­ness mod­el. Every­thing is just like Grey­hound but you strap wings on that thing. And every­one else want­ed to be a big boy or big girl air­line. And he just did­n’t Grey­hound does­n’t serve food they nev­er have and they prob­a­bly nev­er will.

Brad Giles 19:47

Yeah. Next one, very quick­ly retain­ing Texas as our num­ber one pri­or­i­ty and only go into state if high den­si­ty short haul mar­kets are avail­able to us. It’s very, very clear when You’re breach­ing that rule, right? Yep. It real­ly is. So that’s the smack one. Obvi­ous­ly, I think we men­tioned ear­li­er, it typ­i­cal­ly only changes less than 20% per decade. So this is stuck around for a very long time for did­n’t give you anoth­er amplifier.

Kevin Lawrence 20:19

I think in south­west­ern his­to­ry they’ve been around. Think since the 70s. And cor­rect me if I’m wrong, they’ve been around a long, long time. Incred­i­ble prof­itabil­i­ty, quar­ter. I mean, amaz­ing, amaz­ing, amaz­ing per­for­mance. bor­der­linx, they’re still run­ning 730 sev­ens is the only thing they run. Again, just stick­ing to the sim­ple basics. All right, con­tin­ue on.

Brad Giles 20:43

It’s the dis­trac­tions that ruin us. So here’s anoth­er exam­ple a com­pa­ny called Con­nect wise I T. I love this SMac. Okay, so here’s four key points out of their 10 points, SMac. So the first one is ces there it right sys­tem engi­neers must be 80% bill­able. Now I used to own it com­pa­ny. I know how impor­tant that is, right? That is every­thing. If you can’t get your peo­ple to a cer­tain bill­able amount, and get them to stay there, every­thing falls apart. Sec­ond one, we will sell hard­ware with a 20% mar­gin tar­get, you can imag­ine how much grief they would have had, you bet you don’t under­stand this is a big oppor­tu­ni­ty, we need to sell it at 5%. Or this is what the com­pa­ny put me the com­pe­ti­tion to doing. This is the price we’re gonna have to go in at 5% to win that deal. Next one, this is prob­a­bly my favorite smac item of all of this macro items. I love it. We don’t take on doc­tors or lawyers as clients. Can you imag­ine the grief that they have had to put that as a smac item?

Kevin Lawrence 22:00

I love to know more, it’s prob­a­bly not appro­pri­ate. But I’d love to know more.

Brad Giles 22:04

I don’t have any­thing against doc­tors or lawyers. But in their com­pa­ny, they obvi­ous­ly have had a lot of fail­ures and dis­ap­point­ments in that are­na. And so they’ve said, This is what we don’t do.

Kevin Lawrence 22:17

I have anoth­er client, anoth­er client — one com­pa­ny they work with loves to work with lawyers, it’s one of their key cus­tomers of anoth­er com­pa­ny work with that just under­stands the com­plex­i­ties of deal­ing with doc­tors, they work with them. Well, it’s a core cus­tomer. And it’s won­der­ful and hard because again, but they all have their chal­lenges, but they it’s about know­ing your cus­tomer and who it isn’t.

Brad Giles 22:43

I love it. This is how we win this. Remem­ber, this is the recipe for suc­cess, we will not be liv­ing the recipe for suc­cess if we take on doc­tors or lawyers as clients. And then the last one from con­nect wise it, we won’t take on clients that have an IT depart­ment. Smart, smart, like, we might be tempt­ed, we can sell them some hard­ware or they only want this lit­tle bit, we can’t pro­duce the great­est suc­cess. So then when you add think about all of the com­po­nents that would make up a smac. If you stick to it, great suc­cess­es hap­pens. But also if you reg­u­lar­ly revis­it it, let’s say quar­ter­ly, it’s going to tell you or prompt you to ask, Hey, Kev, why are we work­ing with doc­tors, like we’ve got four doc­tors clients, and our spec says that we don’t work with clients, I must have so many con­ver­sa­tions on this.

Kevin Lawrence 23:41

If we’re unsure about a deci­sion, we run it through the fly­wheel to make sure it’ll add pow­er to the fly­wheel. And then we run it through the smac months max­i­mum cir­cle run up through the smac to make sure that it’s con­sis­tent with the smack. Those are two points that help us to make good deci­sions amongst oth­ers. Those are two fil­ters to help us to make good deci­sions. Yeah.

Brad Giles 24:03

So then how often do this max change? We men­tioned the 20% ear­li­er, but one exam­ple here was Intel, they make com­put­er chips. So they only had one change in 1985. And very quick­ly the sto­ry there is that the Japan­ese com­peti­tors had start­ed to dom­i­nate mem­o­ry chips. And the founders of Intel came into a board meet­ing and they just said off the cuff. Well, if we were new to this com­pa­ny, what would we do and the respons­es would shut down mem­o­ry chips tomor­row. And then that prompt­ed them to change their snack recipe because the mar­ket had changed sig­nif­i­cant­ly but the point and then they shift­ed to focus on micro process­es. But the point there is that we some­times we have to change but not very often.

Kevin Lawrence 24:58

Yeah, and not very much Yeah, yeah, it’s basi­cal­ly there’s a mas­sive new insight that we’ve had through the process. So it’s a great thing, a tool to have as the guardrails for your most impor­tant deci­sions, and basi­cal­ly prin­ci­ples that you stick by that allow you to be endur­ing and con­tin­ue on your march towards great­ness, to great, great thing, the smack recipe, my lit­tle take­away is, it’s a list of all the things that have smacked you hard. And you’ve learned the hard way in busi­ness, and you don’t want to repeat. So just to do a quick review, we talked about the smack list con­cept from Jim Collins. Thank you, Jim, for your awe­some research that finds these prin­ci­ples that we can use a very sim­ple, sim­ple tool with a great name came out of study­ing those most suc­cess­ful com­pa­nies in tur­bu­lent times, we talked about how the Hedge­hog is crit­i­cal to under­stand­ing the core of your busi­ness. And the SMAC is almost the guide­lines of this prin­ci­ples to stick to your hedge­hog or bring your hedge­hog to life. And, and make sure that you’re doing the right things that in the end can help to build momen­tum in your fly­wheel and not screw it up. And they’re built from all of our lessons that we talked about, we talked about the South­west mark, and there are key things, a cou­ple of oth­er smacks that we don’t want from real estate one from it. And, and then Brad talked about how you know, they don’t change, maybe 20%, a decade, not much at all, and then just change when you get anoth­er big oop­sie, or a big les­son about some­thing that you want to tweak in your mod­el. So great, Brad, I just love it. You know, when it’s mak­ing me think of one client that we work with that would prob­a­bly ben­e­fit from this. And we prob­a­bly need to put that on the agen­da to get this done.

Brad Giles 26:42

Good to hear. Yeah.

Kevin Lawrence 26:44

So thanks for lis­ten­ing. This has been the Growth Whis­per­ers pod­cast, Brad and I love shar­ing the learn­ings that we have from great thought lead­ers like Jim Collins and the won­der­ful com­pa­nies that we work with around the world that imple­ment these prin­ci­ples and get their insights and trac­tion from it. To sub­scribe, please sub­scribe if you haven’t already to wher­ev­er you lis­ten to pod­casts. And even bet­ter yet, share with some friends. What oth­er entre­pre­neurs or lead­ers do you know that you can share this with and rate it if you feel like it today? For the YouTube ver­sion, go to youtube​.com Search the growth whis­pers it’s there you can watch us as we’re hav­ing our dis­cus­sions. See some of the hand sig­nals between us at times. And Brad and I both have newslet­ters. We put very thor­ough newslet­ters out on a week­ly basis to all the peo­ple that we inter­act with. And we have oth­er great resources on our web­sites. Brad’s is evo­lu­tion part​ners​.com​.au and ours is Lawrence and co​.com. Hope you have an awe­some week. And if you don’t have your smac list, put it togeth­er. Have a great one.