Podcast EP 133 | Onboarded - Why new hires that are a good fit are a problem (2 of 4)

“Many peo­ple refer to a per­son as a good fit (they are still here) or a bad fit (they left). This cre­ates a mind­set prob­lem when we think about new hires. We can then think that new hires are pre-deter­mined to be a good or bad fit, and it’s out­side our con­trol. And worse, any effort to make them fit is a wast­ed effort. Because this mind­set tells us there’s no point in spend­ing time if some­one is a bad fit.

Hir­ing can be viewed as a ​“deal done”. We can con­sid­er that a good hir­ing process will pro­duce a good fit, and if they are a good fit, and we spend min­i­mal time with them, they will still be OK — because they’re a good fit. But fit is not bina­ry, fit is a spectrum.

We talk about Brad’s new book Onboard­ed and the prob­lem with the phrase ​‘good fit’ and why instead we should use the phrase ​‘suc­cess­ful fit’.”

EPISODE TRAN­SCRIPT

Please note that this episode was tran­scribed using an AI appli­ca­tion and may not be 100% gram­mat­i­cal­ly cor­rect – but it will still allow you to scan the episode for key content.

Brad Giles 00:13

Hel­lo, and wel­come to The Growth Whis­pers where every­thing that we talked about is build­ing endur­ing great com­pa­nies. My name is Brad Giles. And as always, I’m joined today by Kevin Lawrence, my co host, Kevin, hel­lo. How are things today?

Kevin Lawrence 00:26

Things are good, Brad. I say that every week, but they are.

Brad Giles 00:30

Yeah. Good to hear. And we always like to start with a lit­tle bit of some­thing dif­fer­ent some­thing from your world some­thing that’s on your mind, word or phrase what might be on your mind today, Kev.

Kevin Lawrence 00:48

Today it’s ser­vice. Was down in Seat­tle on the week­end and went to a restau­rant that was high­ly rec­om­mend­ed. The food was excel­lent. Like prob­a­bly the best cala­mari I have had 10 or 15 years? Nor­mal­ly they do the bread, the stuff and deep fried. Right? And that’s not the tra­di­tion­al way? Or I don’t think it is it was this was the sauteed way, which is tricky. And with that spec­tac­u­lar food and just mediocre ser­vice. Oh, and at the end of the day, my gosh, if the ser­vice had been as good as the food, it would be incred­i­ble. And I felt bad because the serv­er was sort of fresh and new and wasn’t prob­a­bly on board­ed, right, Brad. He was­n’t trained, he was­n’t set up to win in the job at all. Like we basi­cal­ly it was almost ser­vice on demand, we had to keep ask­ing for what we want­ed and etc. So just the you know, the dif­fer­ence that ser­vice makes because the envi­ron­ment was great. The food was great. The loca­tion was great. The ser­vice just dropped the whole thing down many points.

Brad Giles 02:05

I won­der if the own­ers knew that?

Kevin Lawrence 02:10

I don’t know. Um, yeah, I don’t know, they must have because it would have been bla­tant, it would have been damn obvi­ous. I guess they did­n’t. Or if they weren’t there. I don’t know if the own­er was there an audit. And it was it was one of those nights I did­n’t want to make a big deal about it. And you know, just want­ed to kind of get on the way enjoy the rest of my night. But it was it was it was every­thing was right. Except for the inter­face with the cus­tomer. So ser­vice and the val­ue of service.

Brad Giles 02:42

This is where you asked me if I got one.

Kevin Lawrence 02:44

Yeah, exact­ly. I was just go. Hey, Brad. So Brad, what’s the word or phrase you’re think­ing about today?

Brad Giles 02:54

Some­thing that’s been on my mind is, empa­thy is a riv­er that flows down­hill. What the heck does that mean? So staff in a busi­ness don’t have empa­thy upwards. They don’t have empa­thy for their man­ag­er or the fur­ther lead­er­ship that we need to have empa­thy for them. Okay. Yeah, they may do, but they expect lead­er­ship, strong lead­er­ship from us. When we don’t deliv­er it, they will be like, they will be crit­i­cal. But we need and we should­n’t expect empa­thy when we’re doing it tough or we’ve got prob­lems. It’s human nature that we need to expect. So yeah, it’s some­thing that’s on my mind at the moment. Empa­thy is a riv­er that that flows down­hill. And that, yeah, we’ve got to think about all of that.

Kevin Lawrence 03:44

Empa­thy and ser­vice. I mean, empa­thy is a big part of good ser­vice as well. Yeah. Being empa­thy, con­nect­ed with the cus­tomer, help­ing them get what they want. Awe­some. Well, let’s dig into and by the way, if you haven’t sub­scribed yet, hit that sub­scribe but­ton or like to hit the like but­ton. As long as you enjoy what we’re doing here today. Hope­ful­ly you do. We’re hav­ing a good time shar­ing the stuff and prepar­ing for what we’re going to share. So what are we dig­ging into today, Brad?

Brad Giles 04:09

Yeah, today we’re talk­ing about part two of four about the new book Onboard­ed, that is com­ing out on Novem­ber, 1^st. And in par­tic­u­lar, we’re talk­ing about this, this issue. The prob­lem when we believe that new hires are a good fit, you prob­a­bly heard the phrase good fit before that per­son was a good fit, or that per­son was a bad fit. So we’re talk­ing about that.

Kevin Lawrence 04:34

Awe­some. And I think one of the things that we’re going to talk about with that and we want a great pas­sion­ate dis­cus­sion about this, is that it’s not just a state of being it’s some­thing that we have influ­ence and respon­si­bil­i­ty in cre­at­ing and that was the main thing that I thought about from our con­ver­sa­tion Brad. You know, these sit­u­a­tions, man­agers can some­times fall into a trap of just think­ing peo­ple are as they are in many ways. You know, I think the author was do it. I’m going to book we’re talk­ing about fixed mind­set and growth mind­set. Yeah, fixed mind­set is that peo­ple are as they are, and they will be as they will be. And there’s not much we could do. Where growth mind­set is that we can have a role in being a cat­a­lyst, and help­ing peo­ple to learn and grow and be bet­ter or be more effec­tive. And I think that’s, that’s kind of where we’re going on this one here today.

Brad Giles 05:28

Yeah, so imag­ine your favourite sports team. Okay. And imag­ine they just hired a great new play­er from anoth­er team. Well, how long would you expect that per­son to take to be a part of the tight unit, where they’re all kind of singing from that same hymn sheet, or they’re doing some­thing, right? I mean, you would­n’t expect it to be a week or two, right? You’d expect it would take a long time for that per­son to unlearn all of the plays from what they used to do. The expec­ta­tions of the coach, you know, the tech­ni­cal things like all of that, like you’re not going to be able to…

Kevin Lawrence 06:07

And that’s, that’s assum­ing that there’s some struc­ture to it. If it’s all organ­ic, it could take for­ev­er, if it’s just a learn­ing by osmo­sis and learn­ing on the job, that takes longer than if there’s some actu­al con­scious intent to, to impart this knowl­edge and under­stand­ing to them.

Brad Giles 06:25

But here’s the thing, what’s going to hap­pen to the score­board of that sports team, as a result,

Kevin Lawrence 06:32

if that per­son is not part of the team, the team is not going to func­tion. That’s like, you know, when we’re in board­rooms, we say that every time you add a new mem­ber to a team, it’s a brand new team. Yes. And you’ve got to start and rebond that team and get every­one under­stand­ing each oth­er. Yeah. And that takes time. And, and some teams nev­er do it.

Brad Giles 06:51

Yeah, yeah. It’s a new team. That’s it. And just like that sports team, it’s a new team. And we need there’s a job to be done to get it to work, you know, part of this book, I did a glob­al sur­vey of 1100 CEOs and hir­ing man­agers. Okay. And the, the, what that said, as I asked the ques­tion, how long does your onboard­ing process take 83% have an onboard­ing process of two weeks or less. So yes, only 17% are going 15 days or more. Right? So you go back to the sports team, and you think, where are these? Uh, you know, we’re expect­ing peo­ple to be on board­ed and able to func­tion? Well, after, you know, sev­en or 14 days. It’s a real,

Kevin Lawrence 07:39

Which is ludi­crous if you think about it. Yeah. I mean, how could some­body pos­si­bly win, after kind of two weeks of kind of learn­ing how we work and what we do? Yeah, I mean, unless it’s the sim­plest busi­ness on the plan­et, and per­son­al­i­ty does­n’t mat­ter. And you don’t have to work with oth­er peo­ple. And I mean, I don’t know, there’s a lot of vari­ables at play. But it’s yeah, and you know, the hard part is what hap­pens in a lot of these cas­es, is that we’re so excit­ed to get this new per­son on board, that we’re thrilled to have them there, we’re thrilled to have the relief of them able there to take on the work and do the job. And we think that they’re a good fit, and we just let them run. Because it’s, it’s a relief. And we’re thrilled to have anoth­er body to do things and anoth­er brain to think things and get things done. And, and I’ve seen it time and time again, where it’s basi­cal­ly, peo­ple are giv­en way too much con­fi­dence and way too much auton­o­my way too ear­ly because they don’t know what they’re doing. And even though they might be even expe­ri­enced at a sim­i­lar job some­where else, they don’t know what they’re doing here.

Brad Giles 08:50

And that’s the key word in there and the pur­pose of today’s episode is good fit. Okay? So when we look at some­one as being a good fit, okay, what we’re doing is we’re indoc­tri­nat­ing our teams into the tyran­ny of low expec­ta­tions. Okay, what that means, what that means is that we’re look­ing back, and we’re say­ing to our­selves, ​“Well, remem­ber Bob, Bob was Bob was a bad fit. Remem­ber, Jen? Jen was a good fit.” And so what that mind­set does, is it tells us that there’s no point onboard­ing because Jen would always have been a good fit.

Kevin Lawrence 09:31

It takes away our respon­si­bil­i­ty in it. Yes. Like they were either good or bad from the begin­ning. And whether the hir­ing deci­sion process picked that up or not, but it takes away us think­ing about our respon­si­bil­i­ty to make them real­ly good and suc­cess­ful on the team ver­sus well they were going to be that any­ways. It’s almost fatal­ist that, well, they were going to be good or not good. And, you know, when we talked about this, Brad would have boiled down for me and my sim­ple­ton brain was, the safe expec­ta­tion is that they’re a decent fit. Right? Like in my mind, I’m a num­bers guy. So it’s like, every­body you hire, on aver­age, on their nat­u­ral­ly, organ­i­cal­ly would aver­age to be about a 65% fit. But on aver­age, they could prob­a­bly be a 90 or 95% fit. And our job are a great fit, and you have dif­fer­ent lan­guage for that. But they could be an okay fit. But they have the poten­tial to be a great fit if we onboard them prop­er­ly and teach them the ropes and the philoso­phies and the process­es and the way we think and work. And fair­ly quick­ly upfront, don’t make them wait two years to fig­ure it out. And so if we assume that they’re actu­al­ly I might change the word to a mediocre fit, if we assume every­one comes in as a mediocre fit, but that they could be great, then we will treat them very dif­fer­ent­ly. And we will give them the right resources and the ener­gy to cause them to become an excel­lent fit in our orga­ni­za­tion. Ver­sus almost like leav­ing, it up to luck. And leav­ing up to chance. And that’s I mean, that’s a that’s a key point, because we’re real­ly you’re say­ing is we have a huge freak­ing respon­si­bil­i­ty to help some­one become suc­cess­ful, even if they’re the best A play­er in the world com­ing on board, we’ve got a huge respon­si­bil­i­ty. And we got to make sure we do our job.

Brad Giles 11:28

We need to cause them to fit. So a bina­ry, it’s what I call it as a bina­ry fit ver­sus a spec­trum fit mind­set. A bina­ry fit, is going to say they’re red or they’re green, they’re good, or they’re bad. And that’s why I don’t use the word good fit. And I push back against it. Because, because then when if you can imag­ine two good can­di­dates, there is noth­ing that we can do. If you’ve got that mind­set, there’s noth­ing. So there’s no point doing onboard­ing, and it for busy man­agers, but is busy man­agers are going to look back and they’re gonna go, ​“Why should I even both­er, they want your week­ly meet­ings or what­ev­er, spend­ing time with this new hire, they’re good, they’ll work out.”

Kevin Lawrence 12:12

And if they’re bad, that’s the point you’re try­ing to make. Yeah, you’re you’re try­ing to make is just because you’re real­ly good does­n’t mean you work out, because you’re not going to learn some of the key things that you need to suc­ceed often.

Brad Giles 12:24

Yeah, so and then imag­ine a spec­trum from green to red. Green, they, they def­i­nite­ly will work. Red, they def­i­nite­ly won’t work. And then there’s just this blend that goes across from there, every sin­gle per­son that we hire will fall with­in there. And it’s our job, right? The job to be done, to get those peo­ple to be a suc­cess­ful fit. To suc­cess­ful­ly fit in the firm, or to be an unsuc­cess­ful fit that we can val­i­date and they should be exited.

Kevin Lawrence 12:56

Yeah, and exact­ly. And you’re and you’re not say­ing that every­one’s going to fit. But you’re say­ing we that we can do a much bet­ter job of help­ing them to fit and caus­ing them to fit. I think of Dean on my team. He’s the first coach I brought onto my team. He’s a mas­ter of this. These are not things that I am good at, like I am what you would call a stereo­typ­i­cal leader, not nec­es­sar­i­ly an effec­tive man­ag­er by nature. And as we were build­ing up our admin team in the firm, I said, Dean, I think I need you to help. I tried a cou­ple times I was­n’t suc­cess­ful. And I believe I was the cause. And it may have been hir­ing mis­takes, too, could have been a hir­ing mis­take. But even that I there’s a skill that peo­ple have of caus­ing peo­ple to fit and help­ing them to be suc­cess­ful. He’s like, spec­tac­u­lar. Like his onboard­ing plans are beau­ti­ful. The way he helps peo­ple suc­ceed is it’s unbe­liev­able. It’s incred­i­ble, the way that he does it. And for him, it’s like noth­ing. And I what I know is he he is high­ly skilled at this. And we have an incred­i­ble team now doing that stuff. But he’s doing all the things that you’re talk­ing about. He just he’s, he’s hap­py to take a per­son that looks like a decent fit and help them to become a great fit. And he’s, you know, again, he’s, he’s like a shep­herd and he shep­herds peo­ple to suc­cess. And he’s, you know, amaz­ing at that. But he’s, you know, he’s learned this over the years and all of his dif­fer­ent roles. And he’s, you know, yeah, I’m sure he’s missed made mis­takes, but the invest­ment he makes in get­ting peo­ple suc­cess­ful, is incred­i­ble. Hence, he has a very incred­i­ble record track record of mak­ing peo­ple successful.

Brad Giles 14:40

Yeah, yeah. And that suc­cess, okay means that next the next episode, we’re going to talk about this thing called onboard­ing debt. Right. And that is that things that peo­ple don’t under­stand, but I’m not going to get into that. You know, it makes me think that sto­ry makes me think of many years ago, we hired a soft­ware devel­op­er a dif­fer­ent busi­ness, we hired a soft­ware devel­op­er seemed like a good guy. On reflec­tion, I looked back at him, and I felt that he was a bad fit. Okay, I felt he, he was a bad fit. But if I was tru­ly hon­est, like we real­ly did­n’t get him, we did­n’t cause him to under­stand our expec­ta­tions through an onboard­ing process, we hired him, we were flat out busy. And we did­n’t get him to under­stand the num­bers, the expec­ta­tions from our expec­ta­tions as man­agers, the cul­tur­al expec­ta­tions, and the tech­ni­cal expec­ta­tions, you know, and and the point there is that we did­n’t know why it did­n’t work. Okay, so the, because we did­n’t real­ly do an effec­tive onboard­ing process then, I look back at him as a bad fit. But I did­n’t real­ly know why I would label him a bad fit. And we should have had more rigour to get that point, so that at 90 days, we could have con­fi­dent­ly said, This per­son is an unsuc­cess­ful fit. And we we know that.

Kevin Lawrence 16:19

Yeah. And that’s the key is to know what why you suc­ceed when you suc­ceed and know why you fail when you fail. You know, it’s sim­ple thing I was think­ing about, as you’re talk­ing about this, Brad, we’ve added a cou­ple of, of new advi­sors to our team in the last few months. And they’re in the mid­dle of their onboard­ing right now. But as we’re going through it, we’re hav­ing a con­ver­sa­tion about some­thing. And it was about how we deal with a prospec­tive cus­tomer, and the process and how we do it. And he’s talk­ing about what he’s going to do. And I’m like, Huh, well, we don’t do that. We don’t even believe in that. And so what I real­ized is I had Jan­ice whose my right hand, pull up the onboard­ing plan, and it was­n’t in there. Yeah, this process of how we engage with a prospect. We had all of our dif­fer­ent ser­vices and how they’re deliv­er­ing on what this but all that stuff, all those good stuff’s in there. But there was noth­ing in there about that. And of course, he was doing it dif­fer­ent­ly, because he did­n’t know how we do it. And, you know, I shared some things with oth­ers. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. And, you know, in a half hour con­ver­sa­tion that was straight­ened Oh, but he would have been run­ning down the wrong road, and engag­ing with our clients in a way that’s not con­sis­tent with how we do things, and it’s not his fault. And so now we’ll make sure it’s in the onboard­ing, to make sure it’s there for future and, and the two and the oth­er gen­tle­man who’s being on board right now, I’m going to make sure that he’s got it. I’ve already got around the cal­en­dar for he and I. But that’s, you know, that’s it’s these lit­tle things that some­times you take them for grant­ed. Of course they don’t know.

Brad Giles 17:53

And you know what, he prob­a­bly thought he was doing the right thing.

Kevin Lawrence 17:57

He did. He was excit­ed about how he did it. In this case, our phone, peo­ple con­tact us and we help fil­ter their needs and come up with a solu­tion. He was like want­i­ng to pitch and tell them how great we are and teach them stuff. I’m like, that’s not how we do it. But he’s used to proac­tive­ly con­tact­ing peo­ple ver­sus peo­ple con­tact­ing us. Any­way, he’s he was excit­ed about his thing. I said, you got a great process. Yeah, if you’re out there knock­ing on doors, but that’s we don’t do that. Any­ways, it’s it’s you know, and it’s good peo­ple smart with good inten­tions, but with­out know­ing the right parameters.

Brad Giles 18:34

You know, what’s in between the lines are what you just said, right? How hard it is for peo­ple to unlearn. Right, because we think, ​“Oh, we’re going to teach them the way that we do.” But if I’ve been using this oth­er soft­ware, this oth­er process this oth­er way, it’s not just learn­ing the way that we do it at this new firm. It’s also about unlearn­ing and learn­ing a bet­ter way. So unlearn­ing is real­ly hard for the human brain.

Kevin Lawrence 18:59

Well unlearn­ing is required to learn, right, you got to let go of an old belief. And, you know, this great thing is dur­ing some pas­sion­ate con­ver­sa­tions in the last cou­ple of years, I remem­ber hav­ing some con­ver­sa­tions with peo­ple where they just could­n’t see my per­spec­tive, or see a dif­fer­ent per­spec­tive. And intel­li­gence and con­fi­dence allows you to see dif­fer­ent expect per­spec­tives and evolve yours. Right? When you’re when you don’t real­ly under­stand some­thing well, and you’re not an expert on it or you’re not con­fi­dent in it. Peo­ple gen­er­al­ly hold on to stuff real­ly tight. I mean, it’s a bit of a bit of a bit of a side thought, but so let’s get back to this here. So what else do peo­ple need to be think­ing about in terms of get­ting you know, the dan­ger of assum­ing some­one’s a great fit, which we’ve, you know, or a good fit, but the dan­ger of believ­ing that we know is you won’t you won’t do the work. Either way, you got to assume that peo­ple that join you will be a c plus fit And you can make them an A fit. It’s it’s and that we need to see that as our job. I love it. So any­thing else you’d add in there? Brad?

Brad Giles 20:10

Yeah, here’s the thing. Let’s say you’ve got an A play­er, as you implied, or you’ve got to any play­er, right? What we’ve got to remem­ber is that this per­son, if they’re in a play­er, and they were in high demand, we’re talk­ing with oth­er employ­ers a few weeks ago, right? So if you come on board, and you’re real­ly busy, and you’re like, ​“Okay, there’s your com­put­er, there’s the bath­rooms, that’s the exit plan, and I’ll pass you over to that per­son,” like, can you go to like a, let’s say, one or five or sev­en or 14 day even onboard­ing process? And that’s it. And it’s like, alright, be free, go and enjoy. Yep. Like two or three weeks ago, they were talk­ing to oth­er employ­ers, and then that about their val­ue propo­si­tion. So they’re like, I’ve been here for a cou­ple of weeks, like these guys are, let me go, I don’t real­ly under­stand how to suc­ceed in this role. At what point does that a play­er then think I could maybe I could be more suc­cess­ful at that oth­er firm, right? And this is where attrition…

Kevin Lawrence 21:17

Or worse, they just do what they think. And it’s wrong. And they make mas­sive, mas­sive mis­takes. Yeah, that can cost them their trust and their career, where they’re at, or huge frus­tra­tion that we’ll get to the point of mak­ing them look some­where else. Yeah, but a play­ers are going to dri­ve and do so I remem­ber, you know. Brad, you remind­ed me of a sto­ry, one of the exec­u­tives that we work with, and I will not say the coun­try. But he came from a dif­fer­ent cul­ture. And in their cul­ture, he was record­ing a con­ver­sa­tion as evi­dence inter­nal­ly with anoth­er employ­ee. So we found out about this in that moment, it’s like, should we fire him today, or we fire him tomor­row? Well, we gave him the ben­e­fit of the doubt after we thought about it, but the real­i­ty is in his pre­vi­ous com­pa­ny, and as screwy as it sounds, they did that. That was a cul­tur­al norm. Now 99% of the com­pa­nies I’ve ever worked with, that would­n’t be but where he was, it was a cul­tur­al norm. So he made a crit­i­cal error. And maybe that would­n’t have got cov­ered in onboard­ing, but he made a crit­i­cal error. And we had a con­ver­sa­tion we I did­n’t, they had a con­ver­sa­tion with him, explained that that was not okay. And we’ve been watch­ing him for six months. He’s great now. He’s learned our rules of the road. He’s learned our approach­es and our val­ues. But he had, he had basi­cal­ly had bad habits from some­where else he had been, and did­n’t even real­ize that it was a bad habit, but it com­plete­ly was wrong in the cul­ture that he had joined.

Brad Giles 23:02

He under­stands like that’s the thing. If we look at if we’ve got a good fit mind­set, we think it’s all about the deal, right? Think about buy­ing a house or buy­ing a car or or doing it. But But hir­ing isn’t every­thing. Hir­ing is crit­i­cal­ly impor­tant. Okay? But hir­ing, if we look at hir­ing is hir­ing gives us the deal. If we do a good job of hir­ing, we’ll get an A play­er, and then we’ll be all good. But then there’s a whole oth­er job to be done. And the bru­tal real­i­ty is that almost every­one has a bad on store, bad onboard­ing sto­ry, okay? And almost every com­pa­ny does a crap­py job of onboard­ing. It’s a mas­sive oppor­tu­ni­ty for com­pa­nies right now. I remem­ber. I remem­ber I hired a sales per­son, many years ago. And she was clas­si­fied as a good fit. Okay, she seemed, she seemed at the begin­ning to be a good fit. But then, after nine months when she left because she was­n’t doing the right things, I kind of thought she’s a bad she was­n’t a good fit, she was a bad fit. But then if I think about it from a spec­trum mind­set, she’s had suc­cess­ful roles around us. And we did­n’t make her under­stand and cause her to be a suc­cess­ful fit. So the good fit is a real problem.

Kevin Lawrence 24:24

Yeah, I love it. And the real­i­ty is, assum­ing that they’re going to get there on their own. It’s like think­ing that your kid can teach them­selves to ride a bike them­selves. Oh, they’re a smart kid. They should fig­ure it out. When in real­i­ty, we’ve got a job to do and we don’t want to miss that. Awe­some, great, con­ver­sa­tion. So oth­er episodes that we have that relate to this. Episode 69 was a top grad­ing vir­tu­al bench and why you need one, episode 54 Sev­en hid­den rea­sons employ­ees leave. Part of it is because the job is a mis­match and they’re not feel­ing good about it. And then episode 46 Jim Collins has sev­en ques­tions for peo­ple deci­sions. Obvi­ous­ly, Brad’s book Onboard­ed, which is going to be out soon, you’ll be able to get a copy of that read more about this there is cov­er on the screen Onboard­ed, we’ll make sure that we put the link in the in the notes as well. And the root of all this is that it’s it’s mis­con­cep­tions that we have, that we spend all this time and ener­gy find­ing great tal­ent. And then we under invest when we’re onboard­ing them and decrease their chances of becom­ing an amaz­ing part of our team. Even if they have the ingre­di­ents. Some peo­ple might get there on their own. But most peo­ple need help. Or at least we can accel­er­ate it. By the way, inter­est­ing. As a side note, one of the clients that I work with, they do sur­veys at the end of the three month onboard­ing, to ask what was help­ful, like how hap­py they were with it, what was help­ful, what would have made it bet­ter what I eat, what do they wish they did, and they’ve done hun­dreds and hun­dreds of these sur­veys to help them dial in their process over time.

Brad Giles 26:02

Yep, yep. And so that’s what we’re going to talk about next week is onboard­ing debt. So if you’re not caus­ing peo­ple to under­stand if you don’t have an effec­tive onboard­ing process, what is the cost of that? Hope you join us next week. It’s been a good episode. Kevin, good to chat.

Kevin Lawrence 26:24

Thanks for lis­ten­ing every­one. You can get us on YouTube dot com obvi­ous­ly and just search the growth whis­pers and both Brad and I both have week­ly newslet­ters and lots of valu­able resources on our web­sites. Brad’s evo​lu​tion​part​ners​.com​.au and mine is Lawrence​and​co​.com. Have an awe­some week.