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Growth CEO Interviews

Topgrading Interview with Chris Mursau

March 13, 2024

Kevin Lawrence inter­views Chris Mur­sau, Pres­i­dent of Top­grad­ing, about Fool­proof Hir­ing—a sim­pli­fied ver­sion of the well-known Top­grad­ing methodology.

Kevin empha­sizes that com­pa­nies can’t scale with­out strong lead­ers in key roles. Chris explains that while tra­di­tion­al Top­grad­ing is pow­er­ful, it can feel over­whelm­ing. Fool­proof Hir­ing focus­es on a few high-impact dis­ci­plines that sig­nif­i­cant­ly improve hir­ing with­out requir­ing a full implementation.

They high­light com­mon hir­ing mistakes:

  • Not recruit­ing A‑players proac­tive­ly. The best can­di­dates aren’t apply­ing — you have to go find them and build a bench before you need it.
  • Trust­ing resumes. Most are incom­plete or inflated.
  • Skip­ping mean­ing­ful ref­er­ence checks. Using a ​“truth moti­va­tor” (telling can­di­dates ear­ly they must arrange calls with past man­agers) increas­es hon­esty and fil­ters out weak­er candidates.
  • Con­duct­ing shal­low inter­views. A longer, chrono­log­i­cal inter­view reveals pat­terns, char­ac­ter, and real per­for­mance over time.
  • Over-rely­ing on per­son­al­i­ty tests. They’re use­ful data points — not deci­sion tools.

Chris stress­es there’s no mag­ic bul­let — bet­ter hir­ing comes from gath­er­ing bet­ter data and reduc­ing risk. And when a hire doesn’t work out, act quick­ly and respectfully.

Sim­ple, dis­ci­plined steps can dra­mat­i­cal­ly improve hir­ing success.

Here are some high­lights cap­tured in clips:

Impor­tance of Ref­er­ence Checks
Proac­tive Recruitment
Struc­ture of the Final­ist Interview
Or watch the full inter­view here:
Addi­tion­al Resources Relat­ed to the Interview:

About Lawrence & Co.
Lawrence & Co. is a growth strategy and leadership advisory firm that helps mid-market companies achieve lasting, reliable growth. Our Growth Management System turns 30 years of experience into practical steps that drive clarity, alignment, and performance—so leaders can grow faster, with less friction, and greater confidence.

About Kevin Lawrence
Kevin Lawrence has spent three decades helping companies scale from tens of millions to hundreds of millions in revenue. He works side-by-side with CEOs and leadership teams across North America, the Middle East, Asia, Australia, and Europe, bringing real-world insights from hands-on experience. Kevin is the author of Your Oxygen Mask First, a book of 17 habits to help high-performing leaders grow sustainably while protecting their mental health and resilience. He also contributed to Scaling Up (Rockefeller Habits 2.0). Based in Vancouver, he leads Lawrence & Co, a boutique firm of growth advisors.