Executives are often more driven than the average person. We run hard all the time, and it usually works. And then, it doesn’t work.

We persist and push harder than the average person, and that’s why we win. But it’s also why we can crash harder and sometimes even put everything at risk. 

This week we talk about executive burnout. What it means, what to look out for in both yourself and your team, and when it might be time to go get some help.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

 

Kevin (00:00:13) – Hey, welcome to the Growth Whisperers podcast, where everything we talk about relates to building enduring great companies, which also relates a little bit to building enduring great versions of ourselves. Actually, that’s probably the major benefit of building a great company, is it forces you to grow and find what you’re actually capable of. Um, although you may be never will find the limit. Uh, anyway. I’m Kevin Lawrence here in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, and I’m here with my co-host partner for the 162nd time . Mr. Brad Giles down in Perth, Aus a Perth, Australia. Brad, how are things for you today?

Brad (00:00:52) – Today things are great. Doing well. Uh, seasons are changing again, as we’ve said many times. Um, yeah, uh, things are, things are going really well. I’m, I feel blessed and lucky and fortunate. Um, I, in, uh, not only, uh, in the work that I do in the family that I’ve got, but also, you know, being able to have a chat with you every week.

Kevin (00:01:17) – Yeah, it’s great. And I’m also grateful the seasons are changing cuz we’re changing towards summer, which makes a massive difference for us. Yeah. Cool. So, word or phrase of the day. What’s, what’s your word or phrase of the day?

Brad (00:01:29) – I guess it’s comfort. Um, sometimes we can be in our comfort zone or our comfort spot, and that’s a good thing. And other things, it’s a, other times it’s a bad thing. Uh, the subtitle to my book, made to Thrive was, uh, about getting outside of your comfort zone. Mm-hmm. . Um, but it’s good to have some comfort. It’s good to step out of it. What about yours, Kev?

Kevin (00:01:52) – Actually, you know, I had something different. I’m gonna change it. I’m gonna riff off of what you said. It’s mm-hmm. , get comfortable being uncomfortable. It’s a phrase, a mentor of mine said to me years ago, I said, to really thrive in life and career, you need to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah. And that’s what growth is about. It’s your, your ability. And it ties back into, uh, what we’re talking about today. Yeah. So, uh, yes. That, that was not, that was very easy to meld together. It was actually rift off yours, so it’s actually part of the same. So let’s get into, today we got a lot to cover and we want to be as succinct as we can, although still effective. And we’re talking about, you know, executive burnout, c e o burnout, human burnout. And how do you know when you need to get help?

Kevin (00:02:36) – This is part one or two. Next week I’ll have another episode that will record on, uh, the resilience part of it. But this is like identifying, you know, hey, you know, you’re in a tricky situation. You know, we all, all the time we have, you know, we have hard times and usually our personalities, we push through and when a going gets stuff, we get going. Yeah. And we push through and break through the obstacle of the wall and come out with the other side. Maybe a little dust on us, but we’re fine. And then all of a sudden that same strategy sometimes doesn’t.

Brad (00:03:08) – Yeah.

Kevin (00:03:09) – And, and that’s where, uh, we’re talking about today. Often we push through, it’s what we do, but sometimes we get broken into process and, uh, the pushing doesn’t work. And, you know, it’s kind of like you’re speeding on a section of road on the way home every day. You know something. Of course I would,

Brad (00:03:28) – You know, the, the problem with what you just said. Yeah.

Kevin (00:03:31) – What’s that? I thought it was, I thought it was awesome. I think it was great. No, don’t tell me

Brad (00:03:37) – The, the problem with you, the, with what you just said is it can be perceived as being binary. In other words, we push until it’s broken. And what we’re trying to encourage, what we’re trying to encourage here, it’s not binary, it’s a spectrum. Right. So you could be awesome or you could be, yes, you could be as bad as you could imagine, right. But it’s not, it’s not black and white. It’s, uh, a varying spectrum.

Kevin (00:04:01) – Well said.

Brad (00:04:02) – And what we’re trying to say here is that pick it up before it becomes worse of a problem. So I I When do you know that it’s time to get some help? If someone who’s told you, I think, Kevin, you need to get some help, it’s probably too late. Right. And you, you, you’ve done well said, more damage than you need to.

Kevin (00:04:21) – It’s true. Because what will happen is as you go down that spectrum, it’s like the lights so slowly turn out and fade on your enthusiasm and your energy and your optimism. Yep. And the spotlight grows on your anxiety and your worry and your dread. But it’s not like as a light switch, it’s just a gradual fade. And if you talk to people that have done it, that’s why it sneaks up on them and catches up on them. Yeah. Because it’s a gradual change over time. Usually. I mean, it might happen in a period of a week or two, but usually it’s over a period of time and it catches up. Good point. Very

Brad (00:04:59) – Important. And you don’t, you don’t know, maybe you just get a little bit grier or maybe you’re a bit short with people. Maybe, you know, you, you, the bandwidth to execute projects or decisions slows down.

Kevin (00:05:15) – But Yes. Or your cognition starts to fade because it’s, you’re so busy and consumed dealing with whatever is the root of the additional stress in your world that you’re like fighting that battle. You don’t realize, you know, the, the, you know, uh, how, how the damage it’s doing to you. Cuz you just need to continue battling on Yeah. Because usually you’re up against something big. Yeah. And you don’t realize the change of your state. The people around you might, but you might, you may be unaware

Brad (00:05:44) – If we, if we go back a hundred years, um, people went to war and come back traumatized with a post-traumatic stress syndrome. Mm-hmm. , uh, disorder, excuse me. P T S D. Uh, and they just suffered in silence. And that was carried over through society and, uh, at massive costs. Uh, and even if we go back only to the sixties, maybe even the seventies, the phrase that you said earlier was, look, we’ve just gotta push through. We’ve gotta be tough. Yeah. And resilient. We’ve gotta cope. But we’re so fortunate today that, um, uh, people, society broadly understand, um, that, that, that these are real issues that can, can affect people and, and, and we’ve gotta work on them.

Kevin (00:06:35) – Yeah. And the thing is, is that different issues affect different people. Just like people that went to war No, haven’t been to war, but from the, the studies that I’ve read, there will be people that are in identical circumstances. And you know, I think the percentage of people that get P T S D is, last I read, was like under 5% of soldiers. Yeah. Something in that range mm-hmm. . But many of those soldiers experienced a lot of self, but based on different, whether it’s the situations they’re in or who they are or their background or their upbringing, people end up with different effects. Yeah. And so something that might cause you incredible stress and strain, I might just take in stride because we’re all different. We’re all unique. And that’s the thing with this. And, and even for some people, something that they experienced once might not throw them mentally, but then another time it might, again, there’s a lot of variables.

Kevin (00:07:30) – The key is that we’re persistent by nature, which normally works, but sometimes we get into situations where things compound and it gets the best of us. And then mentally and cognitively, we fade to the point where we probably need to get some help to get back to normal again. No different than if we sprained our ankle, we’d probably get help if we broke our ankle, we would definitely get help if we broke multiple bones For sure. We’re in the, in the hospital. Yeah. Uh, but the same is true mentally. It’s just different circumstances lead to different outcomes for us. Yeah.

Brad (00:08:04) – So why is this a problem and why is it more of a problem with the audience of the growth whisperers? Mm-hmm. The people who are listening into this, because don’t take this as a compliment, uh, our good audience, but, uh, executives are probably more motivated than the average person. Right. Average person has a level of motivation that works well. They can have an average job, an average family, an average car, an average house, all of that. But if, if you’re listening to this podcast, it’s prob it probably means that you’re in a demographic, which means that you’re more motivated, you’re more likely to push and drive and try to achieve more than the average person. And that’s the propensity to burn out.

Kevin (00:08:53) – Right. Because we put ourselves in situations of perk, potential pain and peril more often, that’s it because we kind of go off the beaten track or, or climb a higher mountain or break a new trail with the people that we, you know, we work with. And, and so we’re more likely to get ourselves into challenging situations. And that’s a reality. So we got kind of a few key things that we’ll cover off, but you know, number one is that that persistence that we’re talking about was we normally, we push hard and that’s why we win in the until sometimes it gets the best of us. Yeah. And, and the main thing that happens is that I have seen dozens and dozens of high performing executives and CEOs that have been surprised by mental health issues. And even to the 0.1, um, that I’ve worked with for a long time.

Kevin (00:09:39) – Great, awesome leader and be very generic, just to keep it generic, but they had a panic attack once on an airplane and they were absolutely consciously contemplating getting up, opening a door and jumping out of the plane because being in that little metal metal tube, their brain was exploding. And they had an to the point where a smart, educated, experienced exa, they did not have, you know, a little startup. They had been build, build, building an enduring great company. Yeah. But they got to that point with, you know, with, with just a panic attack, which was a result as of a lot of other stresses in their world. So all kinds of stuff happens all the time and, but people get surprised as it creeps up on ’em and builds upon ’em.

Brad (00:10:32) – They’re not expecting it. Uh, it, we are, uh, people who are motivated are more likely to crash. We, we, we, we, yes, we know that. But there’s a second part to this. And the second point that we’re making today, right? Is that every person, not just the people who are putting themselves into this, uh, this situation where they’re more likely to burn out. Every person is one or two mental, pardon me, one or two major life events away from a mental health crisis.

Kevin (00:11:05) – Yes. This

Brad (00:11:05) – Is normal. And so we’ve got the first part, which is people who are driven are, just to use your race car analogy, they’re just redlining more often. Right. They’re tao we’re

Kevin (00:11:15) – At risking more often. Yes. Yes.

Brad (00:11:19) – And then we say ignoring

Kevin (00:11:20) – All of us. Yeah. But all but all of us basically. And a matter of it’s like, you know, you could go and put us in a ring with a professional boxer, you might take one punch to the head. Yeah. Unlikely you’re gonna take two. Yeah, for sure. You’re not taking three then you’re on the ground seeing stars, like, and maybe knocked out like many people that have mental health crisis have Yeah. And it’s not based on your family. There could be a genetical thing where you could be a little bit more sensitive to certain things, but generally, everyone, the strongest people from the best families, from the best situations with the best resources still get knocked out by mental health crises. And that’s normal. That’s part of the game. And you know, I had a c e O that I worked with awesome. C e o and, and like most of the paperwork, but very experienced, but they were in the middle of a big transaction for their business. You know, they had, um, a frozen shoulder so they couldn’t sleep properly and they had a new baby that’s three strikes.

Brad (00:12:28) – Yeah.

Kevin (00:12:28) – The baby’s a positive. Selling your business is a positive, but that adds a whole bunch more stress in the environment and a whole bunch more things going on. All of which in, in this perception of this case, affected their sleep.

Brad (00:12:43) – Yeah.

Kevin (00:12:44) – And they got to the point where their cognition was dramatically decreased, dramatically. Like wicked smart, c e o not as, just didn’t have the same cognition because without sleep, less sleep, more stress, you’re, you’re gonna pay the price. Yeah. And, and, and you know, again, they ended up doing really, really well in the end. And they, you know, the transaction worked and the business, you know, continued to do well. But the, the key is, is that it just, it in the midst of a bunch of great things, they still got dropped on their butt.

Brad (00:13:22) – And this is serious stuff, right? I mean, we, we say the, the title of the episode is about a burnout, but the, but unless we address this, unless we know when to get help, it can be a big problem. There was a c e O that I, I knew, uh, uh, many years ago, and he unfortunately, um, lost his business. It was a, it was a tragedy. It was in the G ffc, uh, and it was a tough time for many, many people. Um, but his business just, y you know, uh, Warren Buffet says when the tide goes out, we know who’s not wearing pants. Yeah. Well it was a bit like that without going too deep into the situation, , it was a bit like that. Right. So, so it, it, the business didn’t survive the G ffc and it was really tough. And then he broke up with his wife maybe a year later, which was really tough. Yeah. And then a year after that he committed suicide. Um, geez. So it’s, I mean, you know, it’s a terrible tragedy. Um, but these things are, uh, you know, they can have massive ongoing impacts, uh, not only obviously for the individual, but for his surrounding family as well. Yes. Um, so we

Kevin (00:14:50) – Really, that’s why, and that’s why I’m so passionate about this topic.

Brad (00:14:53) – I know you are, because

Kevin (00:14:54) – In those states, people don’t make good choices because they’re so cognitively impaired. They, they see the ending their life sometimes as a solution, which we know on the outside’s not the case. Yeah. That’s as good as they can do in that moment.

Brad (00:15:10) – And that really takes us onto our third point, right. Our brains become a liability Yes. When we get into that state. So for that particular person, he is, you, you know, like anybody who’s in a state of depression or what, whatever it it may be, um, you are, you’ve gotta, uh, cognitively appreciate that your brain becomes a liability. The analogy that you put here, Kev, is that it’s like you’ve got a broken leg and you’re stranded in the forest. Yeah. You, it’s not gonna help the, uh, your brain in that situation will not help you get out of the forest, uh, metaphor.

Kevin (00:15:48) – Yeah. And, and when that happens, when your brain breaks, you can call it a mental breakdown. We call it the red zone on a mental health continuum. Or you’re just burnt out, whatever you wanna call it. You’re just not working with all your functions and you don’t feel good. And you are starting to have more unhealthy thoughts. And, you know, people will say, it feels like the walls are closing in. Other people say it feels like there’s a vice on your head tightening up and putting more and more pressure on your brain. Like your head’s gonna explode. You know, I had a one c e o that called me that I knew socially now, um, when we, by the time we released this episode, uh, my interview with him could be live on my website where he’s telling his full story. He’s just approving the final interview in text.

Kevin (00:16:33) – Now he’s been very brave to share the reality of his story cuz he really wants to help people. But he was in the process of going through a major challenge in basically being, you know, forced to sell his business. Cuz you know, of some reasons that I’m not, it’s not my story to, to tell. Sure. Um, and you know, and he would called me and saying, Hey, I need help. We’d met socially. And, and he calls me to ask for some help with his business. And he was, you know, starting to tell me about it. And I’m, as I’m talking to him, I’m like, , this, this guy’s gotta be in rough shape. And he’s talk sounds all good and all normal. I’m like, Hey, how are you doing? And he is like, whoa, you know, blah, blah, blah. And, and he kinda almost def first sidestep.

Kevin (00:17:18) – And I said, are you having any, you know, thoughts of hurting yourself or suicide? He’s like, uh, yeah. I’m like, alright then. And I reassured, I’m like, Hey, that’s under, you know, it’s understandable based on where you’re in, but those are telling you that your brain is not your friend right now if you’re having those thoughts. Mm-hmm. . And, um, unfortunately he was surrounded by help. He was in a peer group of CEOs and had a, a community. And I don’t want to be, you know, it’s okay. He, but, but he was the type of person who would stand up and always put his best face forward and all that stuff. And so nobody had asked him how he was doing. And, and, and, and long story short, God, I’m going to see a counselor regularly and getting professional help. Right. I’m a guide. I am not the answer on these things. They need experts in those situations. And he did a whole bunch of things to get himself back on the right track. And, you know, he’s, he’s climbing and doing, he’s doing very, very well now, but it almost cost him his life. And, and there was no need for that. Yeah. But it was such an emotional entangled mess.

Brad (00:18:35) – Yeah.

Kevin (00:18:36) – And obviously we’re all proud and when things go sideways and it’s messy, it, we care, it gets to us and then we start to have a broken brain has very dangerous thoughts and that’s why you need other people to help you out. So in that case, it was, the option is get to a counselor or a psychologist. That’s job one. That’s it.

Brad (00:18:59) – Yeah. I, I I like what you said that your brain is not your friend right now. And, and that’s what we’re saying, right. Our brains become a liability, but there are some quick and dirty things we’re gonna talk next about the mental health continuum, but Yep. One of the things that we can do, uh, is exercise. Now that might seem like, oh, you’re not gonna get onto that. Where are gonna get, are you? But if we’re in a meeting, let’s say with a, a team member and it’s quite clear that something is, they’re just in a stressed situation. Yep. What I’ve effectively done before has said, let’s go for a walking meeting. So we’re got a one hour meeting and we’ll, we’ll go for a walk up and around and everywhere else, and we’ll talk,

Kevin (00:19:46) – Everything gets better.

Brad (00:19:48) – It is amazing what a bit of blood flow can do to the brain. Now this is not necessarily gonna solve the person that you just mentioned, Bob

Kevin (00:19:57) – Is, it’s very logical, Brad. It’s very logical. Research backs it up like crazy. But guess what happens to a brain in a red zone? Doesn’t wanna work. It wants nothing to freaking do with exercise.

Brad (00:20:09) – No, no, no. But what I’m saying is that if you, if you are working with someone Yes. On the team, uh, uh, and, and sure your brain might not want to, but just

Kevin (00:20:19) – Oh, for sure. You’re, what you’re saying is awesome. I’m just saying. But when the people are in the red zone

Brad (00:20:23) – Yeah. You don’t wanna do

Kevin (00:20:24) – It. The brain wants, they, their brain wants them to do the opposite of that. Yeah. Which why it becomes even worse. It’s one of the best antidotes to it. Yeah. Yes.

Brad (00:20:33) – It’s a quick and dirty. So let’s move on then. Yeah.

Kevin (00:20:38) – So the idea of the mental health continuum is just to understand it so you know what happens to your brain when you get messed up.

Brad (00:20:46) – So let’s explain what the mental health continuum is. This is our fourth point. So it’s a spectrum from green, yellow, orange, red, and under each of, uh, there, there are four lists, a green list, a yellow list, et cetera. Under each of these lists, there are, I guess, attributes that very quickly help someone to assess where they or a a a colleague would be sitting, for example, under healthy, um, you would have normal fluctuations in mood, uh, which is green. Whereas under red, which is ill, you would have excessive anxiety, panic attacks, depressed mood, et cetera. So there are all, there are these really quickly things mm-hmm. That these things that you can do to assess the situation. I strongly encourage anyone who’s listening to Google the mental health continuum model as several you can look at there. Um, it’s a great tool. So we’ve explained that kit.

Kevin (00:21:47) – Yeah. And it’s developed by the mental health associations of the world. And I’ll flash it on the screen for those of you that are watching the podcast here right now. And as I talk about it for a minute, and, and, and the main thing here is it just shows how your cognition, your energy, your, um, social activity, your substance abuse changes as you go. Because basically, uh, as your cognition starts to get wor or your mental health starts to get worse, you’re likely to seek more things to make you feel better. So if you just take, um, uh, addictive behaviors, which are really coping mechanisms, it would goes from whatever your normal range is, whether it’s, you know, shopping or alcohol or whatever your, whatever your vice is, everyone’s got something. It starts to just, as you progress across the continuum, it gets to the point where it just, it owns you.

Kevin (00:22:42) – And that’s where deep, deep, you know, addictions get into. When people get into trouble with drugs and alcohol and, and credit card debt or whatever is that there’s, you know, they’re trying to counteract the stress and it just becomes worse and worse and worse. So Diaz, you can identify how you’re moving and the root of it is no different than if it was to be measuring the severity of a foot injury. Green is a normal foot, yellow is a sprained ankle, orange is a broken ankle, and red is broken ankle requiring major re re re uh, surgery and a metal plate. Mm-hmm. . And, and if you’re green, you’re fine. If you’re yellow, you gotta take a little care of your foot. If it’s sprained, if you break it, you gotta go to a doctor. And if it’s a horrible break and you need serious multiple surgeries, of course you’re gonna go to a doctor.

Kevin (00:23:30) – Same with the brain at orange, we should be getting help. And that’s the root of it. And you know, a a quick example is during Covid, you know, I ended up in the red zone and I didn’t know I’m there. I teach this stuff, it’s in my book. Yeah. And a long story short through as I’m going to a spa on a windy road in my sports car, and I had a hardcore incident of road rage, literally charging at the car in front of me like a bull would charge someone and then slamming on my brakes before I hit the bumper and doing it repetitively, trying to give them the suggestion that they move out of the way so I could enjoy the windy road. And I know that’s absolutely absurd behavior. I almost got in a fight with a restaurant manager too, because he wouldn’t let me talk to my daughter at a table in a restaurant. She was 15, she couldn’t decide dinner, she’s crying. And I wasn’t allowed to go to her table because of Covid rules. Anyways, I’m not, and and I’m not a fighter.

Brad (00:24:27) – Yeah.

Kevin (00:24:28) – I am a race car driver and I’m a little aggressive. That’s true. But I know those were horrible behaviors, but I didn’t realize till I was in the middle of those and I had a chance to reflect, whoa, I’m actually in the red zone. I did because it was after Covid, me and my team were working crazy long hours. Even you and I were collaborating on things like mural to figure out how to run strap planning sessions remotely and blah. Yeah. It was nuts. It was crazy. And, and then I had to kind of get myself, get some help and get on the right track. And even myself as a someone who’s well informed on this, I still ended up there with all the right mechanisms because of the circumstance and my behavior was atrocious, which I peeled back. And that’s the thing is it happens to any of us and it can, um, pop up outta nowhere.

Brad (00:25:15) – So the mental health continuum, again, we encourage people to Google that for, if you can self-assess, then great. If you need to help, uh, assess other people, then that’s great as well. Um, um, the key is that often friends and family, our fifth point are not enough. They can be supportive, but you can’t absolutely

Kevin (00:25:40) – Just change, change a word.

Brad (00:25:42) – Yes.

Kevin (00:25:43) – Always. Not often.

Brad (00:25:46) – Friends and family are always not enough. Okay. We cannot get through this stuff.

Kevin (00:25:53) – They can give you the best hugs on the planet. Yep. And when things are good, they’re the best people to celebrate with.

Bard (00:26:01) – Uh, and and there’s a couple of reasons. They’re often too close to the situation. They’re not mental health professionals. Um, and they might not know or they might Yeah. It’s, they, they’re too close to the situation while I was making that point again.

Kevin (00:26:20) – Yeah. Well it’s like you would let, if you broke your ankle, you’re not gonna let your uncle who’s a welder or your uncle who’s a neuroscientist in a LE laboratory operate on your ankle and fix it. No. Like we know. Or your other cousin who’s a plumber and just got their ticket, but they’re real keen and they’re good with a knife and they’re a hunter. So they know how to cu cut the elk. Me real. Well you’re not gonna let ’em do it. So why we let ’em work with our brain? So one of the CEOs I worked with that is, you know, was suicidal and unfortunately there’s many that have a number that’ve had to have that conversation with. But he said, the problem my friends and family is they had all the same thoughts that I did.

Brad (00:27:06) – Yeah.

Kevin (00:27:07) – And it made it worse. Oh

Brad (00:27:10) – Dear. You,

Kevin (00:27:11) – They have the best intentions. Yeah. But like the cousin with the sharp knife who knows how to cut because he is hunting and cuts up the meat, he’s not gonna all know how to fix and do surgery on the ankle.

Brad (00:27:24) – And you know, the other thing, if we go back to what we said earlier, everyone is one or two major life events away from a mental health episode. Maybe that major life event is affecting the family and friends as as well. Yes.

Kevin (00:27:39) – . Yes. Yeah. They could, they could, they could be off their game. Your cousin, who’s the good hunter who knows how to use a knife, he could be in the red zone too. Yeah. And he could be delusional thinking he could be, I’m ex I’m making up weird circumstances, but you’re right. They could be effective. The main thing is they’re wonderful support, but in these things they are not skilled. We are not skilled. I do, I wrote a book that that touches on this and I know that the number one answer, psychologist, psych counselor, psychologist, counselor, mental health hotline, hotline story or emergency.

Brad (00:28:16) – So that leads us to the next point of alg. Tell us about Kev.

Kevin (00:28:21) – Yeah. Allergy is from the, again, mental health associations of the world built the mental health continuum. Um, and I know I’m familiar with the one in, in Canada and others that use it, but they have a model of what you do. If there’s concern, it’s called algae. Uh, it’s assess for risk of suicide or harm. If there is risk, get ’em to help immediately. I e get ’em to their doctor or emergency or call a mental health hotline right now, like in the moment, two, listen non-judgmentally, they need someone to hear them and not tell them about the starving kids in Africa and how they should be happy because they have a roof over their head. Um, give reassurance and information. The reassurance is, hey, this is normal. Everyone deals with it. There’s this thing called the mental health continuum and you probably just got knocked to the right towards the red zone. Encourage appropriate professional help, doctor, psychologist, counselor, emergency or a mental health hotline. Uh, and then encourage self-help, which is, you know, a resilience. What can you do? Get sleep, get out for a walk, get with your friends. But if, again, if they’re suicidal, they gotta get with a professional. That’s number one. Yeah.

Brad (00:29:36) – Okay. That’s good. And so

Kevin (00:29:37) – Just, it’s basically a checklist of what to do. It’s a guideline for lay people like us up to know what to do.

Brad (00:29:44) – Yeah. Yeah. Algae, A L G E E, the action plan is, um, what you can, uh, search the internet for mm-hmm. , uh, to, to, to get that point again. So we’ve got two points of action for listeners. The mental health continuum, number one and number two L G A L g e e, the action plan. Right. And obviously so root

Kevin (00:30:08) – Of it is, is that, is is getting help.

Brad (00:30:11) – Yeah.

Kevin (00:30:11) – And we do it naturally with physical ailments. We should do it with mental, I’ve worked with many different counselors along the way and I have good friends like you, Brad, and other people that I reach out to when things get hard in my world. Like I have a network of people I can reach out to for different things. But a counselor, like the counselor that I, that I work with, I haven’t talked to her probably maybe three, four months. Yeah. And, but I, I, I will book a session again soon and keep that relationship because it’s kind of like my insurance policy of when I need help and there’s always things I could use help with. But when it gets really crazy, those are the people that keep you alive in some cases or shorten the recovery period or minimize the pain or, or help don’t minimize help to reduce the pain. They’re, they are critical. And a lot of people have stigmas of what talking to counselors. But we don’t know about doctors. So we’re okay with getting someone to work on our body, but we’re not with for our mind. It’s okay. And I used to have that story so I, I can understand where it comes from. I just think it’s a shame.

Brad (00:31:15) – So if you are listening to this before we close, if you are listening to this, the title is how do you know when you need to get some help? If you are unsure, if you’ve got no one to turn to, I would strongly encourage you to contact, um, the mental health help line in your country. I know that certainly Australia’s got one called Beyond Blue. Um, and uh, uh, uh, I know that America and Canada and all the first world countries certainly have them. So if you don’t know what to do next and you’ve listened to this, definitely I want you to uh, get onto uh, mental health hotline. That’s what they’re there for.

Kevin (00:31:56) – Yep. It’ll pop up everywhere in the world they have them. And your other options is go to emergency, the emergency room of your local hospital or go to the doctor or a medical clinic, but get to a medical related expert who can help you. Uh, also many times companies have employee benefits programs. Your EAPs are called employee assistance programs that have counseling or mental health available as well. Cuz it, it’s, you know, it’s not usually free because hotlines are free. The medical system is free. Yeah.

Brad (00:32:30) – Because as you said, Kev, your brain is not your friend if you are in that state of mind. Exactly. Now having said that, next week we’re gonna do part two of two, which is building your resilience, executive burnout, building your resilience. So that’s what we’re gonna throw out next week. So hope you’ve enjoyed the episode. Quick review. Uh, executives are more often more driven than the average person. We push harder and that’s why we win. But that’s also why we crush. Okay. Everybody, um, is generally as a statement, one or two life events away from a mental health crisis. Everyone our bro, uh, next point. Our brains get broken and become liabilities like broken legs stranded in the forest. Number four. Um, we need to know that what is the tool that we should use when there’s a chance that help is required. And that’s the mental health continuum.

Brad (00:33:27) – And then the next 0.5 is that friends and FLA family are always not enough. They can be supportive. Uh, we spoke about algae, A L G E E and then get a doctor or psychologist in the same way you would if you had a broken leg. So thanks for listening. This has been the Growth Whisperers. Uh, my name is Brad Giles here in Perth, Australia. And uh, my co-host Kevin Lawrence is in Vancouver, Canada. Uh, you can find Kevin at lawrenceandco.com. He’s got a fantastic newsletter that he puts out every week. And for myself, you can find me at evolutionpartners.com.au and of course our newsletter as well. You can find us on YouTube if you so desire by searching the growth whisperers as well. Hope you’ve enjoyed the episode today and look forward to episode two or part two next week. Have a great week.